Sarah Winchester Ain't Afraid of No Ghost

Welcome to Scary Mystery Surprise, where we talk about creepy things that surprised us around the internet. That Medwyn. I'm Michelle, Oh jeez, really interesting week, Michelle. For me, I bet I was recording a video of myself saying thank you to listeners for something that's going to show up on Spotify. And I hear this piano. This was like eleven at night and I hear this. Wait at your house or in Mexico. No, this is here, like here at my house, and I'm just what is that? Like? I freeze, I tense up. This is how I react when I'm scared. I just tense up. I'm like, imagine hearing this creepy literally sounded like a toy piano going. And by the way, I'm recording with the doll behind me because it's like, oh, of course you are to add some pozazz to the shot. And I hear that and I stopped the recording, which was not very smart. I should have kept recording. That's when I heard and I'm like, so, I had the phone in my hand, so I'm like, I'm just gonna record again. Press record this is dead, sign it right, and I'm press record, and now there's nothing. I'm like classic and there's a video of me, I can say, I say, what is that? What is it? And I'm just like genuinely creeped out over the about what the heck happened? Like you might hear me say right here in the video, what is that one? What is that? And just like recording out the window trying to see Wookie, what is going on? Anyway? So that was the start of my late night writing because I still had to finish writing. So I just sat up, walked to my desk. I turned on all the lights. Of course you have to at that moment. Who knows what's gonna happen. Yeah, no, it's super creepy. Man, houses are creepy. And I don't know what's been going on here, because I know I had a creepy experience when we first moved in. I think I mentioned it before, but I don't know what that was. I don't know it was weird. How I just stopped that soon I started recording. And I mean that feels like the most normal part is that, of course it would stop as soon as you start recording. Of course it would wait. Now I understand Zach Bigan, thank you. It's a good thing that he's always recording, though, so that's good. Always recording, always yelling, always locking aeron in a room, always saying, dude, like all those things. Dude, it's so cold right here, dude, dude, feel this spot. It's so cold. Oh man, But today I think you have a story on a house. Right Let me get ready here, adjust my glasses. Then I don't really need to read. I need them to see far away but not actually, So I guess I'll be like this the rest of the time so I can actually read Grandma style. Let me just start. I'll just start in a calm way. So this story was suggested by Iris Rose, whose email didn't work when I tried to email her back and respond. But I think she got Edwin's email, so I think she got a response. I hope. No. I think that email was typed up differently. So we tried. We got it. We tried, Iris tried, We got your email. We loved it, and we tried to respond. Hopefully you got a response. If you didn't, this is your response now. We loved it. But anyway, she requested that we do the Winchester Mystery House and that started me digging. Instead of just doing the house, I ended up doing the enigma that is Sarah Winchester, because she is quite an interesting character. So I actually want to start with a little history to set the background of the world we'll be in. So I just want to talk about the story of a gun, the Winchester eighteen seventy three, aka the Gun that Won the West. So to put it in perspective, guns had played a vital role in liberating the America's from colonial rule, and back then a rifle was a way to get food and protect your family. It was about survival and America still loves its fucking guns. You're gonna get political in this one, Michelle or I try to keep it neutral, but it's hard to not be political about a topic like guns. But I try to keep it open. No, if it gas to get political, will get political. It's okay. With the end of the Civil War, settlers began to push west. The gun was the first repeating rifle. It didn't need to be reloaded as often. You could fire the gun while riding a horse, and it was also the same ammunition as many different types of guns, so you only had to carry one type of bullet. It was certainly one of the most recognizable rifles of the frontier period, used to hunt game and the buffalo, with outlaws like Bush Cassidy and Billy the Kid preferring it over any other rifle. Native Americans acquired the Winchesters, and there's a famous picture of Geronimo holding a Winchester rifle. Cool. So it's it's along with that image of the boots and the holster in your hat. Okay, like Oregon Trail. I don't know if you ever played that game. Yeah, I think of Oregon Trail. That's who I'm thinking of. When you used to die of dysentery. They hated dying of that. Everybody dies. But anyway, they would have had Winchester rifles on the Oregon Trail game. Awesome, all in all over seven thousand snow seventy two thousand, No, seventy two hundred thousand. Yeah, here we go, all in all. Edwin just spit up like a baby hundred the rifhone seventy two hundred thousand over seven hundred and twenty thousand. Oh god, I gotta get it out of control. Over the Model eighteen seventy three gun was easily the most popular rifle of its time. So it sold almost three quarters of a million. That's a lot. I wonder how much they would sell them for. Just curious how much it would cause. So I looked it up. So they were one hundred dollars in that time, which is about twenty one hundred dollars in our money. Oh wow. Yeah, they were expensive. Yeah, they were expensive, like the standard like iPhones. Yeah, pretty much everybody had to have one. They are like an iPhone. Everybody had to have one in order to just it was your food, it was your protection like iPhones. Yeah, yeah, like that iPhone. So I got to be on the internet. Twenty four to seven, protection name Winchester was becoming known across the globe. Not only was it used during the American Indian Wars, the Sultan of Turkey and the Ottoman Empire purchased the Winchester rifles to fight against Russia. Oliver Winchester was happily selling his rifle to the forces defending Maximilian, the French backed Emperor of Mexico. Oliver Winchester also obliged when the rebels trying to overthrow Maximilian also wanted to buy Winchesters. Okay, I okay, okay. Winchester seemed to never lose a wink of sleep over the slaughter of people. A gun was seen as a necessity for survival, and he became extraordinarily wealthy and built an ostentatious home. His family became prominent in New England, known for their philanthropy and their fascination with scientific progress. There is an important note here, and they sept the tone for what's coming is that Oliver and his wife Jane experienced much personal seats. Only one of their four children would outlive them. So that's the environment we're going into, right, That is sees sad, sad. It's a sad intro. It's the eighteen hundreds. It's funny because I was thinking about it and I have a BB gun. So I have a BB gun in my house. Never have a rifle, but I do have a red Rider baby gun from the movie A Christmas Story. Did you ever see that? And my brother got it for me for Christmas one year and that was like really sentimental to me, and like I mounted it on my wall. And then my old roommate borrowed it and went and shot rats down at the La River with it, and I've never touched it since then. It's like buried behind some mic stands. So it works. Yeah, it works, and it lost all sentimental value after that. But I don't know. Yes, rats, maybe I'm cursed by the rats that it killed and those things hurt, baby guns hurt. Oh, he's probably cursed. But he's still probably the best roommate I ever had in Los Angeles. So are your roommates listening? I doubt it. It was not that good of a roommate. Then it would be very funny if he was. But no, he's not doing that now. Sarah enters our story. Born Sarah Party, she will become Sarah Winchester, but in New Haven, Connecticut. She was born to upperclass parents around eighteen forty. Sarah enjoyed the spoils of a luxurious life. Her father, Leonard, was a successful carriage manufacturer during and after the Civil War. Sarah learned four languages as a child and was admitted to the Young Ladies Collegiate Institute at Yale College, which was the highest women could go in education at the time. Her high position in society put Sarah in an excellent place for marriage. By the time Sarah was of age to marry, her parents already had someone in mind, a man who could ensure their daughter would be taken care of for the rest of her life. His name was William Wirt Winchester, the only son of the firearms manufacturer Oliver Winchester. William was the heir to the Winchester Repeating Arms company. And then I wrote, this guy has mutton chops for days. Could they be braided? I want to see a picture Winchester. Let's see. Oh wow, okay, you were not kidding, Okay, right, like they'rey extreme and they be braided. Good question. Would he let me braid his mutton chops? Wow? Okay? And that's on purpose? Yeah, I mean, he's rich enough to not do that, but he's choosing to. Isn't that the same? Something's just never changed. I think it's the same. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, he has enough money to not look like that, but he is choosing to look like that. It's so now it's fashionable, desirable. So it's awesome too, Michelle that you mentioned. Okay, so she was well rounded, four languages, went to this awesome school and everything. So it's great. You know that she needed a man to take care of her because she couldn't. Right insanely well rounded would be fine, probably a business owner in modern times. She sounds very smart and with it anyway. William and Sarah Winchester married in September eighteen sixty two. During their marriage, William worked as a treasurer for the family's company alongside his father. Four years into the marriage, Sarah board a daughter named Annie party Winchester. Unfortunately, just forty days after her birth, Annie died. By all accounts, Sarah Winchester never quite recovered from the death of her infant daughter. Was it a curse? So much personal tragedy had befollowen the Winchester family In her eyes, the Winchester family business profited from death. To further complicate matters, confirming her worst fears, William's father, Oliver, died in eighteen eighty, leaving the company in the hands of his only son. Then just a year later, William himself suddenly died from tuberculosis, leaving everything to Sarah. Suddenly, Sarah Winchester owned a twenty million dollar fortune equivalent to about five hundred million in present day wow and a fifty percent steak in the Winchester Arms Company. Her steak left her with a continuous income of one thousand a day or about twenty six thousand a day in twenty nineteen dollars. Wow, so she just became rich because, yeah, her father in law died, then her husband died, her daughter had died. Yeah, her daughter had died. And then there's on the Winchester side, William's siblings are mostly dead at the point too, So that's the environment she's in, right. Sarah Winchester's husband and father in law had died, and she had gained a fortune capable of keeping a small country afloat. That's terrible, though. I feel bad for her. I know this isn't a haha story. I feel like it's not a haha story, but we get there's some tricks coming up, So don't worry. It's not a haha story. It's not. But it's different than you think. Now. The only question was what to do with it. A suspicion of a curse now had become a reality. In Sarah Winchester's opinion, her newfound fortune was blood money earned from what she saw as the untimely deaths of thousands of people. This had caused the death of her only child, her husband, and her father in law. Already in a fragile state, in search of what to do with the money, Winchester sought help from a medium in Boston. I mean obviously, right, yeah, go asks for help. Go ask a medium, forget a lawyer, forget your financial advisors. Straight to a psychond yeah, forget better help, Just go straight to If she just had better help back then, this wouldn't have even happened. As the story goes, Winchester shared her guilt over the numerous victims of the Winchester Guns with the medium, and according to him, Sarah would be cursed and tormented unless she appeased the spirits of these victims. He told her that the only way she could do that was to move west and build a house for the lost souls. Quite the request. It's quite the random request too, if you think about it, where it's you know what you can do? Go build a house over there, not one to risk eternal damnations at the hands of ending angry spirits. Sarah Winchester made her remission to follow the medium's advice, She packed up and moved to the sunny Bay side city of sanha Jose, California. Yeah, I used to live there and I love it. It was cool except for the racism. Everything was amazing. Oh my god, I'm definitely leaving that in. That's hilarious. But I never went to the Winchester Mystery House, which is bizarre that you didn't. But also, let's get to the end and we'll see where you're at. We'll check in at the end. In eighteen eighty four, Sarah Winchester purchased an unfinished farmhouse in the Santa Clara Valley. Instead of hiring an architect, she enlisted the services of a team of carpenters and directed them to build directly into the farmhouse as she saw a fit. Before long, the Rundown Farmhouse was a seven story mansion built by a team working around the clock. Due to the lack of a plan and the presence of an architect, the house was constructed haphazardly. Rooms were added on to the exterior walls, resulting in windows overlooking other rooms. Multiple staircases would be added, all with different sized risers, giving each staircase a distorted look. Stranger was the fact that so many alterations seemed pointless. Staircases would ascend several levels, then abruptly end, doors would open to solid walls, and hallways would turn a corner and end and did end. It sounds pretty cool. I don't know what's wrong with that. Thought about how cool it would be to have an expandable house. You know what, I want two rooms here, and you just put a wall and another wall and there you go, you have another room. But it didn't think of the windows, So I get it. I get it. A window, Yeah, well, because most normal people would take windows out and just put up well, like instead of boarding up windows and of a room, they just take the window out normally. But I think of it like the Sims. Did you ever play The Sims growing up? Yes? I did. Yeah, you can just do that your two rooms. Oh yeah, I get it. But that thing we're moves the windows automatically for you expanding, and then you could delete the door and then watch them die. Yeah, they just run out of air or whatever. No, they starve to death. They'd pee themselves and then they'd starve to death. And that was what the Simmons did when you killed them. That doesn't mean I'm a sociopath or anything that means I was a normal American child. It's completely normal. I used to do it too. Yeah, and we're both normal. It's perfectly normal, perfectly normal. On our comedy paranormal podcasts, we are totally normal, totally normal people. Nothing wrong with that at all. By the turn of the century, Sarah Winchester's house an oddly laid out mansion with seven stories, one hundred and sixty one rooms, forty seven fireplaces, ten thousand panes of glass, two basements, three elevators, and a mysterious, fun house like interior. Anyone who set foot in the home could tell no expense had been spared. Gold silver chandeliers hung from the ceilings above hand inlaid parquet floors, which I find gross, But some people like parquet floors. I guess that might be the scariest, most disapproving thing of this whole story is that she really liked parque floors. Dozens of artfully stained stained glass windows created by Tiffany and Company. Even more luxurious than the fixtures was the plumbing and electrical work. Rare for the time, the Winchester Mystery House boasted indoor plumbing. She has heat and she has hot water, so she's normal. If you like, had a time traveler come from like eighteen ninety to one of our houses, they'd be like, what a mansion. What a mansion you live in because you have water and your dog has its own bed, its own toys. Yeah, my dog has his own bed, penis medication, he has his own penis medication, which like they didn't have. My dog has his own penis medication or eighteen ninety traveler and have his own penis medications. So it's pretty cool. You can tell she's not dumb, you know what I mean. It's like the innovations were there. So now we move on to the haunted legacy. Finally, Throughout the long years of construction on the Winchester Mystery House, Sarah Winchester would never confirm that she was building a haunted house. However, stories and rumors swirled throughout San Jose. The contractors who worked on the house reported Winchester having nightly seances alone and with local mediums an effort to reach good spirits. These good spirits were reportedly consulted to find out how to best appease the victims of the Winchester rifle, whom she was allegedly building the house for. These good spirits are reportedly what Winchester used to make many illogical additions to the home. Out of the thirteen bathrooms in the home, only one was functional, in an effort to confuse any ghosts wishing to haunt, a spigot dang it, So if they wanted to go pee, they wouldn't be able to and they would just not go. And yeah, I just it's super weird. And I'm not quite sure. I didn't understand the spigot part. But maybe ghost haunted spigots at the time. I'm not quite sure. Where did the construction workers pee? Good question. This is her part of the house. There might be a servants part of the house that had bathrooms, but this is her part of the house. Furthermore, she would sleep in a different room every night in the Winchester House and use secret passages to get from one room to another so no spirits could follow her. That sounds really cool. I wow, imagine having like a secret passageway to get to another room. Isn't that weird? Yeah, it's super weird. Sarah Winchester made quite the name for herself in San Jose. Thanks to her obsession with the afterlife, she had to put up with the rumors of insanity and the supernatural possession for the duration of her life, but perhaps as a reward for honoring or outsmarting the victims of her family's invention, in nineteen twenty two, Sarah Winchester died peacefully in her sleep at eighty three, and the endless construction finally came to an end. I think the construction workers were like, damn. The construction workers were like, oh, thank god, we could take our shoes off, perfect place for a break. What I just told you was the legend, right, it was all fake. That's the quote unquote story of Sarah Winchester. But I was doing some digging, and these are some other conflicting things that I have. Was she a witch? I wish? Was she a wish? Was she slapped by people? That's the dream, That's the frickin' dream. Wait, so it's all been a lie. I don't want to This is what I was talking about where I feel like I'm going to tell the audience that it's like ripping the fantasy away. I feel like I'm gonna no, I know, I know, It's disappointing. Everything I ever knew about Sarah Winchester is about to just go away. I don't know how I feel about that. I know, I was like, do I tell the listeners what I found? Or do I just let that story just stand? We could just let that stand and no one will ever know, no one ever has to think about it. You can just think of Sarah Winchester as this tragic figure in her haunted house. Yeah, I said, we just go with that. So thanks a lot for listening, you guys. Never I ruin people's day routinely, and I'm doing it today for all y'all. Oh no, okay, okay, okay, I'm ready, I'm ready. What I'm like? Okay. After her death in September nineteen twenty two, Sarah Winchester left all of her personal belongings to her niece Marian. However, the Winchester Mystery House was never mentioned in her will after appraisers deemed the house worthless due to its strange design, which like you could see people walking in and being like, oh what the what? Why are there stair going? This is what is going on? Nobody wants this? No, no, After appraisers deemed the house worthless due to its strange design, damage from the earthquakes, and long winded construction. Marion took everything in it and auctioned it off. The current owners of the house claim it took six weeks to empty the house of all furniture because of the strange layout, but that's uncorroborated. After the house was emptied, a local investor purchased the home for one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars, which a four story has with forty one rooms or whatever. For one hundred and thirty five thousand dollars. Even in like current money, that's still even if your house was designed in the craziest form, that's still a good deal. Even if you had demons wandering around, that's still a good deal. Even if you just find the land with no house in it. Yeah, you could just tear down that mammoth house. Just about nine months after Sarah Winchester died, the house opened to the public for tours. Wait what yeah, with what purpose? Because it was so weird, Like people could you couldn't live in it because it was so weird, So they were like, what do we do with it? It was in such disrepair. It had no monetary value, so a group of investors subsequently leased the property to A John and Mamie Brown. I think it's Mamy, yeah, Maymi, who turned it into an attraction. They later purchased the house in nineteen thirty one. There were many room editions and deletions made to the home after Winchester's death. Neighbors, friends, and workers for Winchester were distressed when they read about all the superstitious claims being made about the house and Winchester and were upset, but the Browns were making money off falsehoods. Since her death, little has been uncovered about Sarah Winchester and the reasoning behind her obsession with building the Winchester Mystery House. She gave no interviews, left no journals, and had no family willing to speak about her. Thus, Winchester's story has been embellished over the years with various rumors and myths, and popular writers have misrepresented and invented details about the house and its owner in order to enhance the legend, especially the people that run it now. Because it's a high to attraction. Money money money, money is such a money baby just corrupts everything, even legends. So I guess I'll just start with inheritance. She wasn't that rich. She wasn't as rich as it was. More like she inherited like three hundred thousand dollars, which is a lot, but it's not the staggering about that is presented in the story. Moving to California. There was no proof she ever talked to any medium in New Haven, even though it was common practice for women of her status to seek that out at the time. No proof the never ending construction which I found. This I love because I found newspaper quotes of people in San Jose in eighteen ninety five. So here's someone who was like strange story. Despite large, ornate homes being commonly built by the wealthy, the newspapers declared the reason that the construction was ongoing was that Winchester feared that she would have bad luck if the construction would stop. This theory eventually grew into stories that she believed she would die if the construction stopped. And here's a newspaper quote from eighty eighteen ninety five. Strange story. A woman who thinks she'll die when her house is built. Ten years ago, the handsome residence was apparently ready for occupancy, but improvements and additions are constantly being made for the reason it is said that the owner of the house believes that when it is highly completed, she will die. This superstition has resulted in a construction of a maze of domes, turrets, coppolas, I don't know what that is, and towers covering a territory enough for a castle. Santa Say Daily, March twenty ninth, eighteen ninety five, and then love and then there was another article published by an acquaintance of Sarah's, and this is like pro Sarah. Yeah. An undentified acquaintance refuted these superstitious accusations, stating that they were nonsense and that Winchester was an unusually sensible woman. Only gossip, no truth in the story of the Winchester Palace, so formal, I'm imagining this is like the Twitter of back then. If she wants to build a castle on her premises near Campbell, she should be permitted to do so without ascribing her motives to foolish superstitions. If people of wealth who settle in Santa Clara ought to be ridiculed when they spend them money lavishly, we might as well put up bass after a while, the lady mightn't want to have a nail driven about the place for fear someone would run off to the newspapers with a cockonbull story. San Jose Evening News, eighteen ninety seven, acquaintance of Sarah Winchester. Oh, No, either way, the story's falling apart. The story's falling apart. As Winchester aged, particularly after nineteen hundred, her health issues grew worse, which included arthritis, missing teeth, neurotitis, she became more private and reclusive. Thus reluctance to appear in public or socialized with her peers gave her a mysterious reputation, feeding gossip in the community and local newspapers. So in the next the labyrinth construction, so the Winchester Mystery House hallway staircases to nowhere. Unfortunately, in nineteen oh four, an earthquake struck San Jose and the Winchester Mystery House sustained hefty damage. The top three floors were ultimately removed because they collapsed on the house, leaving the house with only four stories as seen today. So it's only four stories now, but it was seven originally. The small steps were built because of Winchester's declining health, so she built these like weird steps that were like less than a full step because she was getting so old. The trap doors that were built in the greenhouse were for excess water so they could run out and be piped to the outdoor garden. After the damage of the earthquake, Winchester did not rebuild the house fully, so the staircases to nowhere went somewhere and they just didn't repair them. It makes sense, it makes sense, I get it. But one hundred percent. According to Lare, architectural features such as the thirteen bedrooms at thirteen bathrooms and thirteen windows in certain rooms are due to Winchester's apparent fascination with the number thirteen. However, according to carpenter James Perkins, these are the more irregular features that have been made world famous that were built after this Winchester's death, after yeah, when it became an attraction. Michelle, are you giving me real stuff right here? Yeah, I'm giving you real This is the real stuff. Yeah, this is misinformation. This is real disinformation. I don't know it's the truth. On Fortunately, I know that house does not look creepy in like a real creepy house. It looks fake creepy to be creepy. It's they've shot a lot of movies there. The Haunted Mansion in Disneyland is actually based off of it too, So there's a reason. Do you want me to keep going? Because there's there's so many Yeah, the dream already died, so might as well. Gun guilt. At the turn of the twentieth century, the most common belief that still persists regarding Winchester's house building was that she felt tremendous guilt resulting from the deaths caused by the Winchester Rifles and from inheriting so much money from the arms company. It is unlikely that Winchester had any guilt, since in the eighteen hundreds, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company was seen as a success and weapons were viewed as a necessity for survival. Your evil laugh, Michelle, What I just hear our audience just crying over this. Yeah, it just feels like I just saw the truth, right, and like all this time, and you know what, it's the things that I've suspected. If your company's doing really well, and hey, you're helping people, you're helping people with your guns. This is awesome. Blah blah blah. You're helping shape the world. It's for example, Tesla's. Yeah, they crash and burn and explode every once in a while, but they're making a lot of money off of them, and you're still helping the environment. I don't know, I don't know if that's true. It's yeah, you might have killed a few people. You don't see Elon Musk being like, oh no, maybe he could launch the victims of his car accidents into space or something, or put them in his tunnel or tweet about them. I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure what he could do. Maybe that's what he's trying to do. He's yeah, he might be trying to build his tunnel hyperloop to escape from the ghosts that are chasing him. Yeah. Yeah. It's sad that they see Sarah as this crazy woman who talked to a media moved out west. Maybe she was just trying to look she had a tragic story. She also here's the thing too, she actually had four houses in that area. She had a houseboat in San Francisco. She had another house nearby that she put in her that her niece lived in fancy, and then she had another house. Yeah, so she had other houses. She wasn't just living at the Winchester Manton the whole time. She becomes more of a normal person when you read this whereus Oh yeah, she was just a rich person of her time, and her hobby was designing this house. I mean, look, imagine your family, like, okay, you're married to this family. Then they start dying and you're like, oh no, I'm really sad and I want to change. Where do you go to the New Frontier? You go to out west? Do you go do something? And in San Jose, which is again really cool, and there you go. It just it works out. I think I would have done the same thing. I'm hurt. I don't want to stick around. I just go and build a house and do whatever the heck I want, and forget architects. I'll just do what I want. Yeah, I can burn all this money, It's fine. I feel bad for her still, but now I feel worse. I don't want to go to the Winchester Mystery House anymore. Told you to wa told you to wait till the end of the episode to decide. That's why I wanted you to wait. But We're not even Iris is feeling right now, Michelle, that you I know. Oh my god, I hope Iris is okay. We'll have to check in on her. She's gonna leave us a hate review. You know, this happened because of you, Iris. It happened because of you. And then finally hauntings. Okay. Occasionally visitors to the Winchester mansion will report feeling spirits that have long resided in the home, though of course paranormal investigators have turned up nothing. These sightings could be the result of confirmation bias or suggestibility due to the publicity and the rumors that sell tickets. Most importantly, there is no proof of any demonic possession ghostly apparitions of any kind in the Winchester House, but perhaps there are still some spirits haunting the abode, maybe even Sarah Winchester herself. After all, she built the house for the restless dead. Why not take advantage of it for herself. It's either a house of ten thousand ghosts or none at all. But maybe this is the revenge of the victims of the Winchester Rifle, not with violence, but with a story. Winchester to herself, has become an exaggerated urban legend and a cautionary tale of madness and consequence of gun violence. And she's become the ghost story in her own home. So poetic. I know, man, I don't know how to feel now. I feel kind of like this, like a relief a little bit. I get it. It makes sense, and I've said it and other things too. I'm like, I don't know about this house. There's nothing really that tells you. It seems like it's not haunted at all. It seems like it's just people doing stuff there. And I'm not saying that because I do believe houses are haunted, but it seems like this the legend of Sarah Winchester only got fabricated after it became a tourist attraction. It really only got blown up like it was. And like, oh, she's so guilty, she's so guilty of all this stuff, like she's crazy. But I don't think she was crazy. I think she was just her rich lady of her time. Yeah, I don't know. I don't want to go there anymore. I know that, But maybe that's why I never knew in your gut it wasn't real, that's it. I remember seeing that Billboard, and I was like, no, it just doesn't seem real. It's better to know than to not know. And just I would like to see it, I guess, just in person, but not with the same I think it would be an interesting thing to see and to walk through, you know, but not like, oh, one hundred percent, I'd still go see it. But now I'm like, oh, it's not even haunted. Well just be it has Zach Beggin's been there, I think so. I think they did an episode there, but I don't remember what happened. And I'm sure they found cold but some dude dudes definitely happened. He got you know, the three scratch. Aside from that, I'm wondering if he saw anything else. Man, I'm sure he got possessed. I'm sure whatever. If someone starts crying, he has to start crying. There's like a lot of drama like that. Oh No, that was a cool episode of Michelle Ruins your Story. And I feel like we've done this before, where you just I don't know. I feel like this is the first time I've ruined fulliest story. No, I think you do know what some stories that you've asked a question where I'm just like, oh, you're right, it's just ruined. Oh yeah, one logical question just flew this all up the water. Imagine me telling this story. Michelle'm like, so the Winchester Mystery House was this woman in seances? And You're like, is there any proof of seances? No, Michelle, Either way I had it was interesting to find that out, like to see or to hear this other side, which it was, like, I said, it's a strange coincidence. I was living in San Jose, never went there, always fell off about that place, never really thought about it as a creepy fun because they do haunts, so you could go and do the Haunted House at the Winchester Mansion. That would be fun, like they do that at Halloween. Yeah, so it sounds like a cool little attraction, kind of like the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland, where it's probably not, even though I did catch a picture in the Haunted Mansion that has this strange, like a weird flying snake color thing. It showed up yeah, and I'm like, maybe this is just back then taking a picture on a cell phone really different. But then I found out that this thing has been caught in other pictures and oh cool. Maybe it's the same effect. I don't know, but as that were, it's still creepy, but it's maybe not haunted. So I will call this place not that's my stamp sound effect. It's maybe that went too long in order. Do you think they'll come after us if I don't? But it was more of a like d like that was my stamp noise for declaring it not haunted. Would you visit as I like to travel, so of course I just go for no reason. I just maybe there's other things that look that would be awesome. I think, yeah, i'd go. I did one hundred percent go and watch us go and find out that it's super haunted after being Yeah, after I was a huge poop on this when I killed everybody's dream and then we found out it was really haunted and maybe we died there and became ghosts. Yep, and watch you can end up with the Sarah Winchester is gonna manifest. It's gonna show up in your dream and say, I am I am real this place was haunted, or the construction finish for me, or I'll haunt you forever. Yeah, he's three hundred thousand dollars, and I'll be like, this isn't gonna buy me anything. Now, this isn't gonna they want you to let me in the house. For the lady. You gotta get with inflation here. You can just imagine her as it goes, just being like, oh oh, what's the inflation? Yeah, what's the conversion? Oh okay, then we got we gotta raise like this much more. These went okay, we gotta do that. Would you make your story just nonbelievable where it's just guys, it's real. I changed my mind. I saw her in a dream. We sat there and negotiated inflation rates. You won't even believe it. Oh no, oh man. I think if there's any other stories surrounding Norocal, I think I'd be interested in hearing. Oh hell yeah, because those places have the history of rich people, and rich people are a little bit weird sometimes. And yeah, you know those mining stories to Michelle, where like they have mining operations and they get super rich and then suddenly those a lot of money attracts a lot of deaths for some reason. I think that'd be and that happens actually in northern California, So oh yeah, Golden, I'm interested in. If anybody out there has a story about something like that, I'd be I don't know. I like the whole idea of ghost towns, mining towns, Oh yeah, super creepy deserts and wilderness mountain stories in California. What about Tommy Knockers knocker stories? You know what I've heard of those? Oh you haven't done a deep dive on Tommy Knockers. That creep me out? I think I think for dark Remember we did a little and there's a mention of them, but we should. I would love a story on a Tommy Knocker, but they give me the creeps. So if anybody out there has a story dm us on Instagram scary mystery surprise, Oh yeah, and we're taking dms now baby. But also, if you like us, leave a review and a nice little five star radio. Yeah. And then what are we going to be talking about next week, Michelle? I think it'll be a surprise. Dang it? All right, see you next time. Goodbye,